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David Yeagley 
Comanche Patriot
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26540
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 14 2006,15:13 |
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An English Assessment
Dr. Yeagley interviews Peter Brimelow
Peter Brimelow
Here is our interview with Peter Brimelow, native of Warrington, Lancashire, England, American citizen, and creator of the famous VDARE.com. This is the third interview in our series. Mr. Brimelow is a paleoconservative. This entails the belief that a nation comprises ethnicity at a fundamental level. Therefore, endless immigration of foreign culture poses a threat to any nation. Mr. Brimelow is perhaps the most powerful voice in paleoconservatism in America. Be sure to read his book, Alien Nation: Common sense about America's immigration disaster.
Yeagley: What is your response to the idea of an American Indian being an American patriot? Is it impossibly contradictory? Is it disingenuous?
Brimelow: It's absolutely possible for an Indian to be an American patriot. I have argued that a nation is an ethno-cultural entity, and that there typically is an ethnic core, as implied by the Latin root (nascere--to be born). In the U.S., it is a matter of historical fact that core is white. But there is also indeed a cultural component to a nation - generally all we hear about nowadays ("proposition nation") but still not totally invalid - and that embraces all races.
Yeagley: What is your opinion about Indian reservations? Most reservations were won by blood. Indians are proud of this. Indians were the first foreign nations the United States ever made treaties with. Having said that, how do you see their function in America ? Are they 'nations within a nation,' to create an unwanted balkanization, or are they immutable historical tokens, to the honor of both America and Indians?
Brimelow: I think balkanization is a major threat, created by the post-1965 immigration disaster, and the inevitable reaction to it may eventually threaten the concordat achieved with the Indians. Otherwise, I think reservations are grandfathered in to the U.S. as part of an historic compromise. Obviously, I think Indians should also be free to participate in American life outside the reservation, and I'd be unhappy if the system impeded this.
Yeagley: How do you regard race in general? Is it something to be honored and preserved, or something to 'overcome,' in the Communist (Leftist) sense of erasing all boundaries and borders of all kinds, psychological, physical, genetic, etc.?
Brimelow: I'm not afraid of racial identity. I don't think members honoring a race implies that all other races must be subjugated, any more than belonging to a religion commits you to jihad. Generally, I'd leave preserving the race up to the individual, i.e. individuals intermarrying, but I suspect that most members of a race would opt to see it continue. And that's OK.
Yeagley: What do you think of Indian casinos, and specifically of the idea of land-to-trust, where a tribe buys up land (often of its choice--unconnected to historical ownership) to build more casinos?
Brimelow It sounds like a potential racket to me.
Yeagley: What is your basic concept of a nation? Certainly, America is the exception to many historical precedents. But, if America is a nation, where do Indian nations 'fit in,' and how? An Indian nation, such as the Comanche, or the Apache, or the Sioux, have their own language, their own religion, their own culture, and their own general geographic locales. Are they therefore nations?
Brimelow: See above! A nation is an ethno-cultural entity, not exclusively racial, but not exclusively cultural either. (In U.S. English, "nation" is often used where British English more precisely uses "state" i.e. polity, which causes unfortunate confusion. A nation-state is the political expression of a particular nation). The Indian tribes are indeed small, or incipient, nations. However, to a certain extent, and ideally, they are nations in permanent alliance with the American nation - especially as, to the extent their members also speak English etc., they participate in the common culture.
Yeagley: How do you view the idea of Indian mascots for sports teams, or Indian names for states, roads, buildings, companies, creeks, rivers, counties, etc? Does America want an entire ethnic cleansing of all things Indian? Like, a visual genocide? What do you think is really behind this trend to remove Indian images from the country?
Brimelow: I think using Indian names etc. was actually a compliment and the hysteria about it is just rent-seeking by ethnic con artists and projection by other groups paraonoid about their ambiguous status.
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David Yeagley
Comanche Patriot
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26540
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 14 2006,20:06 |
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Brimelow: | Quote | | I think using Indian names etc. was actually a compliment and the hysteria about it is just rent-seeking by ethnic con artists and projection by other groups paraonoid about their ambiguous status. |
Rent-seeking by ethnic con artists. 
When I was at Yale, I remember the term "ethnic chauvinst." I think Brimelow has them beat on that one.
Paranoid about their ambiguous status.
Now, who might that be? Non-Indian groups that create the racial agitation, using Indians? The Commies? AIM? Transform Columbus Alliance? Innumerable Leftist groups, looking for professional status. Perhaps this is what's referred to here. Upstart groups that are looking for validation, purpose, "social" status.
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pinetree
Group: Members
Posts: 173
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,00:54 |
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"Upstart groups" ?
Maybe like tea-dumpers?
Darn "upstarts" .
Answer : Yes , there is a "fourth of July" in Britain .
Only difference is we in America celebrate it .
Just depends on the "eye of the beholder" right ?
Try living in an area where there is a monument in every town , several along the major highway , and an annual celebration of the conquest of the land -- over the "savages" , "menace on the frontier", commemoration of the destruction of towns and the burning of orchards and "the largest cornfields in North America" . Yes "Sullivan and Clinton's campaign" commemorated along the Susquehanna and into New York.
Five monuments within five miles either way from my house.
A complete to the eyelashes male human skin in the "William Penn" museum on display with the "trophies" of the "redskin bounty days" , the bones of a "native family" laid bare with the little girl's dress , quillwork preserved although ... stained.
God bless assimilation. It was the only way to survive when the others left . Now even they thumb their noses at us who protected what was left of our shared ancestor's bones while "foreign" tribes make contracts and open casinos in the former homelands. Oh well , "Indian" gaming is "Indian gaming", with the proceeds leaving the state and going to the foreign tribes -- without so much as an acknowlegement to any indians who have lived here for generations and traditionally lived , made treaty , defended , and hope to do so for ten-thousand more years.
Darn "upstarts" . Taking the image and profiting in a very selfish way.
I'm going to disagree about the names encouraging understanding and as an "honor" until religious symbols aren't used as decoration on mascot attire nor as tokens of unsportsmanlike insult seen in "real-time" live broadcast to the whole world.
Not out of "manipulated protestation" , but out of common decency. It's just a "golden rule thing" , because "respect" isn't a one-way street that can be enforced , it is a choice.
The issue will never be resolved in a way that benefits any native tribe or people . Live with it , but don't promote it .
as ever , with respect , ...pinetree
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Note:In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
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David Yeagley
Comanche Patriot
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26540
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,10:03 |
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Well, I'm suggesting that the Robert Redford/George Soros "Sundance" Institute change it's name to the "Eurcharist" Institute, so they can see how it feels. But, that's a different matter...
Leftist Indians are paid to protest athletic use of Indian names. Now that's important!
The use of Indian religious names as mascots for an anti-American enterprise like the "Sundance" Institute is okay, in their minds. Why, they don't even notice.
But I notice. I'm building a legal case as we speak.
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tallsoldier77
Group: Members
Posts: 4261
Joined: Apr. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,11:54 |
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| Quote | | Mr. Brimelow is a paleoconservative. This entails the belief that a nation comprises ethnicity at a fundamental level. Therefore, endless immigration of foreign culture poses a threat to any nation. Mr. Brimelow is perhaps the most powerful voice in paleoconservatism in America. |
Paleoconservative or neo-lithic-republican? "Endless immigration poses a threat to any Nation". It sure did, look what "endless immigration" did to the Six Nations ( The Iroquois Confederacy) of post-Columbian North America, or to the Great Sioux Nation. Mr. Brimelow, "endless immigration" has been anything but, a benign and benevolent paternal foundation for us American Indians. We thank you for the commod cheese though. I think you have "endless immigration" confused with "manifest destiny" or maybe you are attempting to juxtapose the two, for personal reasons. To sell your book perhaps?
| Quote | | Brimelow: I think balkanization is a major threat, created by the post-1965 immigration disaster, and the inevitable reaction to it may eventually threaten the concordat achieved with the Indians. Otherwise, I think reservations are grandfathered in to the U.S. as part of an historic compromise. Obviously, I think Indians should also be free to participate in American life outside the reservation, and I'd be unhappy if the system impeded this. |
"The Concordat of 1801 reaffirmed the Catholic Church as the major religion of France and restored some of its civil status" (Wiki). Mr. Brimelow are you saying the "concordat" achieved with the Indians was meant to restore some order of civility to us "wild savages"? The concordat you speak of was not "achieved" it was violently and arbitrarily imposed on the American Indian, what is so historic about that?
You think Indians should be free to participate in life outside the reservation? We Indians "participated" in life outside of the internment camps you speak of for thousands of years before your concept of "endless immigration" was up and running, so to speak.
Mr. Brimelow if this kind of one-dimensional, ethno-centric ideology is the primary thesis or premise of your entire book, you might want to consider a revision, visit the Pine Ridge or Standing Rock to Rosebud reservations, then get back to us Indians.
TS77 
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"I was born a Lakota and I shall die a Lakota. Before the white man
came to our country, the Lakotas were a free people. They made their own
laws and governed themselves as it seemed good to them. The priests and
ministers tell us that we lived wickedly when we lived before the white man
came among us. Whose fault was this? We lived right as we were taught it..,Chief Red Cloud.
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David Yeagley
Comanche Patriot
Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 26540
Joined: Sep. 2002
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,12:56 |
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 Interesting thoughts there, TS.
Well, I look at it like this: there is a symbiotic relationship between Indians and America. What we have to do to preserve ourselves, America needs to do to preserve itself.
If America does not preserve itself as a nation, I think Indians will be much, much worse off.
This is how I see Indians as "leaders" in the quest to preserve nations, not only our own, but everyone else's! People need to love who they are, and preserve who they are. Indians can use a revival of that, too. I know we've demonstrated it like few people ever have, but, we need a refresher course, too.
We're giving away too much of ourselves now, I believe. The government, of course, is making this happen.
I know casinos seem like the only open door to autonomy, but, I believe this is a deception. Like any vice, it will bite us in the end.
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pinetree
Group: Members
Posts: 173
Joined: May 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,14:40 |
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Dr. Yeagley , You know i agree with practically all of your intentions , and that may be an understatement if taken by terms indicating "leanings" , which in that event we agree the vast majority of the time.
We owe you our allegiance because you prove and explain issues and allow debate , along with enduring the useful non-sense that we often offer "for what it may be worth" .
("stodgy old conservatives with no sense of humor--NOT!")
As to the ruminations regarding a "legal case' against the mis-use of the Sundance name , God speed --and let us know what may be of use to the effort given the quality of the resourcefulness of the Badeagle.com members .
in sincere respect and best-wishes ,.... pinetree 
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Note:In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
If you are the unintended recipient of this material , or do not wish to read or view , please ignore and/or delete any such message. Thank You.
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| Post Number: 8
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tallsoldier77
Group: Members
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Posted on: Nov. 15 2006,20:36 |
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| Quote | especially as, to the extent their members also speak English etc., they participate in the common culture.
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Mr. Brimelow:
What you perceive as the common culture, we Indians, with justification, view "common culture" as a forced assimilation of your culture upon us. For example, my mother, as a child growing up with her people on the Pine Ridge reservation, in South Dakota, was forcibly removed from her mother, who the BIA deemed as unfit for motherhood.
She was taken to a parochial, catholic school which was run under the tyranny of Jesuit priests, or Catholic Fathers. She was forbidden to speak her native Sioux language, if any Indian child was caught speaking Sioux, they were severely beaten. My late dad, when he was really drunk would begin to cry and tell us kids, my brothers and sisters, of how the priest would tie him up and whip his bare back until the blood began to flow, by this time he would usually pass out.
The Sioux language is on the road to extinction, english is the primary language most Sioux speak these days, it is unfortunate and a reflection of how the "white-man" attempted to purge the proud, unique language that was once spoken without fear of violent retribution. Indians did not want to speak english, they were forced to speak it, forced fed a language they despised by your malignant ancestors.
TS77
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"I was born a Lakota and I shall die a Lakota. Before the white man
came to our country, the Lakotas were a free people. They made their own
laws and governed themselves as it seemed good to them. The priests and
ministers tell us that we lived wickedly when we lived before the white man
came among us. Whose fault was this? We lived right as we were taught it..,Chief Red Cloud.
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SGT TED
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Feb. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2006,07:58 |
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| Quote (tallsoldier77 @ Nov. 15 2006,2:36) | | Quote | especially as, to the extent their members also speak English etc., they participate in the common culture.
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Mr. Brimelow:
What you perceive as the common culture, we Indians, with justification, view "common culture" as a forced assimilation of your culture upon us. For example, my mother, as a child growing up with her people on the Pine Ridge reservation, in South Dakota, was forcibly removed from her mother, who the BIA deemed as unfit for motherhood.
She was taken to a parochial, catholic school which was run under the tyranny of Jesuit priests, or Catholic Fathers. She was forbidden to speak her native Sioux language, if any Indian child was caught speaking Sioux, they were severely beaten. My late dad, when he was really drunk would begin to cry and tell us kids, my brothers and sisters, of how the priest would tie him up and whip his bare back until the blood began to flow, by this time he would usually pass out.
The Sioux language is on the road to extinction, english is the primary language most Sioux speak these days, it is unfortunate and a reflection of how the "white-man" attempted to purge the proud, unique language that was once spoken without fear of violent retribution. Indians did not want to speak english, they were forced to speak it, forced fed a language they despised by your malignant ancestors.
TS77 |
These exact things have happened to most peoples in the wolrd at one time or another. From part of my own ethnic perspective, that of the Scots, who's culture was subjected to very serious attempts by the English to stamp it out; forced assimilation.
Whole Clans(tribes) were deported to Australia or North America. The highland dress, bagpipes and other symbols of the culture were outlawed except for those who served in the local Highland Regiments, which oddly served to preserve the culture until such laws were repealed, which then served to make the culture popular again to the English in a romantic way ala Sir Walter Scott, Robert Burns et al.
Bear in mind that N.A. cultures had their ugly side too. It was never usually a case of Devil Whitey and pristine innocent Native clashing. You can't ask white culture to acknowlege its very real flaws while glossing over your own by pretending yours didn't have any.
The key is, are you going to sit and stew in resentment and reverse bigotry or are you going to accept that you cannot change the past and move forward in a positive direction, while preserving the positive aspects of your culture for your children?
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tallsoldier77
Group: Members
Posts: 4261
Joined: Apr. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 16 2006,11:11 |
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| Quote | | These exact things have happened to most peoples in the world at one time or another. From part of my own ethnic perspective, that of the Scots, who's culture was subjected to very serious attempts by the English to stamp it out; forced assimilation. |
ST:
So you are juxtaposing England's cultural coercion upon the Scots, with the European settlers ethnic-cleansing of post-Columbian North America? We stand on common ground over these historical tragedies.
| Quote | | Whole Clans(tribes) were deported to Australia or North America. The highland dress, bagpipes and other symbols of the culture were outlawed except for those who served in the local Highland Regiments, which oddly served to preserve the culture until such laws were repealed, which then served to make the culture popular again to the English in a romantic way ala Sir Walter Scott, Robert Burns et al. |
Your, Scottish history is also similar to that of American Indians, our tribal customs and symbols and traditions were outlawed by the newly established U.S. Government, i.e; "The Ghost Dance". The Cherokee Nation was displaced from their homeland via the "Trail of Tears". However, was your native language forbidden to be spoken?
| Quote | | Bear in mind that N.A. cultures had their ugly side too. It was never usually a case of Devil Whitey and pristine innocent Native clashing. You can't ask white culture to acknowledge its very real flaws while glossing over your own by pretending yours didn't have any. |
Yes, I "bare" in mind that American Indians waged war against other tribes (clans) took P.O.W.'s, horses, women etc;
However, you called white people "devils", not me. I don't consider white people devils the way you obviously do, I work for a white man, he is generous and respects Indians, he calls me "Big Chief", as a gesture of respect, not hatred.
I am not asking the U.S. Government for anything, I would like to, but I know my supplications would be futile. I am not "glossing" or "sugar-coating" anything, I am just stating historical facts. I was telling a story my beloved mother told me of how Indians were mistreated by white people when she was a young girl back in the 30's. Being taken away from her tribe, the Oglala Sioux at the Pine Ridge rez in South Dakota.
Sir, I am not being pretentious, you can go into any library or bookstore and verify the historical facts that I simply posted, not with the clandestine agenda of soliciting sympathy from white people, that is the last thing I want. I last thing I need is sympathy from a Scot or Anglo-American, the reason I post things is so that people will remember how my people were treated unfairly back in the day.
| Quote | | The key is, are you going to sit and stew in resentment and reverse bigotry or are you going to accept that you cannot change the past and move forward in a positive direction, while preserving the positive aspects of your culture for your children? |
I have never been one to "sit and stew". I joined the U.S. Army when I was 18 years old because I loved my country, I defended America with my life, that is not resentment, that is called "Patriotism". We Indians are extremely accepting and very gracious and humble despite of how the U.S. Government and it's Indian bureaucracy (BIA) have taken so much from so few.
My hope, no, my mission is to preserve a culture that my Government tried to eliminate and destroy, like your Scottish ancestors, we are all in the same boat. I am optimistic, I believe in my people, we will endure.
My children know who they are, I remind them, my beloved mother tells them the stories her grandmother told her, this is how I perceive we Indians are preserving our culture.
TS77
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"I was born a Lakota and I shall die a Lakota. Before the white man
came to our country, the Lakotas were a free people. They made their own
laws and governed themselves as it seemed good to them. The priests and
ministers tell us that we lived wickedly when we lived before the white man
came among us. Whose fault was this? We lived right as we were taught it..,Chief Red Cloud.
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