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Topic: Death As Tradition, Justice, Vice, and Pleasure< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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David Yeagley Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2004,07:32  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

By David Yeagley

Can cold blooded murder ever be considered justice?  In the isolated societies of Eastern Europe, in Sicily, and in the Middle East, it’s often thought to be just that.  The killing of one man calls for another killing—of the killer, in a fierce eye-for-an-eye tradition that supercedes civil law.  It could be called tribal law.  It is the ancient way.  It’s very personal, without professional obfuscations or institutionalized procedures.  It’s man to man.  

Is tradition preferable to civil law?  

Some Albanians think so.  It’s certainly more efficient. Among the remote mountain people of the Rrafsh (northern high plateau region), their kanun (custom or code) is very specific about justice killings.  The brother (or nearest male kin) of one killed, must kill the killer, then himself await to be killed.  It appears endless. And the killer must attend the funeral of the one he killed.  It’s all very open and formal, without trial or debate.  Everyone knows who is doing what, and why.  The killer simply lays wait for his victim.  

The details of the tradition are masterfully revealed in a short novel by Ismail Kadare, called Broken April (New Amsterdam, 1990).  Isolated Albanian mountain communities seem outside civil law. Albania is a ghastly, backward country, full of the fantastical, the romantic, the dreadful, and the unspeakable.

             
             Albanian school children of the 1950's.  Down from the Rrafsh
             perhaps, but the seeds of justice would still be in them, forever.

             
Of course, Americans are more familiar with the Italian tradition of blood feud killings, due to the media’s aggrandizement of mafia tradition, and especially thanks to Francis Ford Coppola’s famous movie trilogy, The Godfather (1972-1990).  There’s a graphic illustration of the simple tradition that one killing demands another in return.  

In the third part, the older Michael Corleone and his sister Connie are living in the village of Corleone, in Sicily.   Michael comments about the Sicilian tradition.  “People have been killing each other for thousands of years.”   One remembers the flashback scene from the second part, when the little “dim-witted” Vito (Michael’s father) witnesses his mother’s execution by the local Don Ciccio.  His mother begged the Don, who had already killed her husband and older son, to spare Vito, her only remaining son.  The old Don refused, knowing that the child would only grow up and seek revenge.  Indeed, later Vito ‘murdered’ the old Don.  

A killing requires retaliation nearly everywhere in the Arab world.  Even war killing.   It is a Middle Eastern tradition practiced almost every day in modern Palestine.  But retaliation is blind—murdering unrelated innocents. If any Palestinian is killed by combat crossfire or military policing action, then innocent Israeli women and children must be bombed en mass.   In the Middle East situation, the Arab sense of justice transcends the personal.  It is exhibited on the racial level, without discretion.  Therefore it’s really not about justice at all.  It is moral abandon.  It is simply murderous hatred unleashed.   So it seems.  

On the personal level, however, the ancient world of the Middle East commonly required  exact retribution, in kind.  This is the eye-for-an-eye tradition of Mesopotamia.   One must remember, there were generally no prison systems in the ancient Near East.   Justice was meted out rather swiftly and openly.  The later blood feud traditions in other Mediterranean areas are no doubt a continuation of this ancient kind of justice.  

Justice had a special place among American Indians too, but without the perpetuity of blood feuds.   Indians could arrive at closure, and make peace, despite their peculiar devotion to justice.

Cadwallader Colden, in History of the Five Nations  (1727) says that Indians were by nature “extremely revengeful.”  Speaking of the Iroquois, he said they would endure nearly anything—long travel, fatigue, and danger, “to gratify that devouring passion.”   He says revenge was the Indian’s only vice.   Apart from that, Indians were the most noble people in the history of the world.   (Colden freely admits that Christians corrupted Indians with worse vices.)  

Plains Indians were perhaps less preoccupied with justice. Comanches, for instance, were chiefly interested in hunting big game.  Apparently the only thing that really offended them was interference with their first love—the hunt.   That interference could take the form of stealing their horses, driving off their herds, attacking them, or moving in on their territory.  But these wrongs could be easily remedied, mainly by returning what was stolen, leaving the big game alone, leaving the Indians alone, and high tailing it off their territory!  

Comanches were pragmatists, and had no relish for endless pursuits of “justice.”  They’d rather be hunting.   That’s the kind of killing they enjoyed most.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2004,08:08 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

It is interesting to me that the American media make little mention of this kind of "eye for an eye" mentality, whether referring to the Palestinians or to other Muslim factions. The United States is portayed as the violence monger, primitive and vindictive, while the less than savory cultural aspects and actions of the terrorists are ignored or downplayed. Personally, I'd prefer the Plains Indian way of thinking: just leave me alone and let me hunt in my territoty and I'll not trouble you.  :)
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David Yeagley Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2004,13:46 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Well, Publius, it just doesn't seem that the world will let anyone alone anymore.  Every inch of the globe is critical, it seems.  Those days are essentially over, forever, I'm afraid.
The world we all had in mind just ain't here anymore.

Let me be the first to welcome you to "Indian country."   :;):
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 08 2004,16:19 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Welcome aboard, Publius -- now; if you'll excuse me, it's time to mount up and ride across the desert sand towards the mountains!
:)  :cool:

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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 09 2004,07:03 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thank you for your welcome. I'm hoping to find some more time to explore the site after June 18th, when I am off for the summer. There is much to be learned here.

With regard to the shrinking Earth, it most definitely seems to be difficult to find space and privacy if one wishes them; but I recently looked at a map of the United States and the land owned by the Federal government. It is obscene how much land is claimed by the government, "protected" from the citizens.
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David Yeagley Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 10 2004,17:46 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Why is it that every piece of that land has a war story about it?   There is no land that was not inhabited, fought for, won or lost, and otherwise marked, indeed from long ago.  

My understanding is that federal land grabs, even those disguised as "federally recognized tribe" lands, are connected with globalism, on this wise:  they want to bring foreign troops, UN troops, here to train, to teach them all the best of the American military.  Yes, Clinton was behind a lot of it.  We want to bring America down, to bring the losers up.  All in the name of "equality."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 11 2004,08:39 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The Federal government claims to be "protecting" those lands it possesses, but I've also heard about those globalist plans you mention, Dr. Yeagley. The point made about land being fought for is so true...in many different historical references worldwide. What is frightening to me is how passive and ignorant (yes, ignorant) about so many things, including the very country we inhabit. The current administration keeps talking about "opening borders" in the Western Hemisphere, similar to the European Union's geographic blurring, and few people assert a challenge. Illegal immigrants from Mexico are essentially repopulating land that once belonged to Mexico, but opposition to this is decried as racism. The battle for land these days is political, not with arms. And few are fighting back.
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David Yeagley Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 11 2004,11:00 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The weak always win political battles.   They appeal to words, distorted "morals" and it's all in theory.  The weak can win, in theory.

I see nothing short of serious revolt in this country's future.  It will probably start out regionally, where the worst problems are, then grow.   There is in fact a lot of internet organization and effort being made.  

Historical justice is the big lie, on which liberal's base their taking from the rich to give to the poor.   This is the communist lie, because they don't give to the poor.  They just take from the rich, to make themselves richer.  

But their lie appeals to the poor and those who feel they have been mistreated.   They train all people to feel they should have a Cadillac and a three-bedroom house, and money for college education.   They try to teach that just being born in the world, you have a right to the American dream.  

This is a lie.  People of the world need to make their own American dream, right where they are.   They should at least try.   That would be justice, for themselves.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 11 2004,16:04 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that if the righteous people of this country DON'T rise up and challenge what is happening, the means by which to revolt will be increasingly taken away. How long before Americans are imprisoned by their own government for speech that has been judicialy determined to be "wrong?" How long before gun owners here suffer the same fate as those in Canada, Great Britain and Australia? Will the corrupt United Nations eventually be granted control of the Internet, as it is endeavoring to do? Perhaps it is the warrior spirit of your people, Dr. Yeagley, that the White race needs to develop.
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David Yeagley Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 11 2004,18:46 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

According to Richard Poe's new book, Hillary's Secret War, squelching the Internet is precisely what the Left wants to do.   Hillary has wanted to do it since the early '90's.

Poe says that the Internet really helped win the 2000 election.  It is a communication arm, and mobilizes masses of people to action.   It's all we have.  It like the pamphlet of the 18th century.   It spreads the word.

Of course, all the enemy has to do is point to pornography, Al Qaeda, and other abuses of the Net, and they will be able to start clamping down.
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