David Yeagley is the great-great-grandson of Comanche leader Bad Eagle. 
At a time of endless American descent, when the “acting” alien “president” is asking for another $1.2 trillion from a meaningless legislative body called “Congress;” when the first lady of delusion flies off to Hawaii for her vacation (–no, not Michelle, but Nancy Pelosi) and at the same time professedly preaching for the poor; when it is abundantly clear that the government intends to have an America without borders, and yet continues to develop brutal tyranny over American citizens; it’s nice to know that the Orthodox Jews are getting theirs in Israel.
Israelis policemen disperse ultra Orthodox Jewish protesters in the central town of Beit Shemesh, near Jerusalem. Clashes erupted on Monday between police and several hundred ultra-Orthodox Jews from a town near Jerusalem who are campaigning for men and women to be segregated, an AFP journalist said. (AFP Photo/Menahem Kahana)
That’s right. Jews all over Israel are protesting against the Orthodox traditions–if only as pertaining to women. Orthodox Jews require that women dress modestly, be segregated on buses (also in the lines waiting to board), and the usual. “Discrimination,” “equal rights,” and the typical slogans associated with women’s rights are all employed vociferously, but the new one is “exclusion of women.” That one seems to have found a new force behind it.
There have been some protests that turned violent. Beit Shemeth, near Jerusalem, saw some arrests. The Orthodox Jews are protesting the social profligacy that allows immodesty of dress, casual association of men and women in public, etc. Both sides of the gender issue are well-heated.
Most people of Western Civilization respond to this sort of thing as if they are wholly unfamiliar with it, and regard it as “extremist.” Yet, these same people would never call Roman Catholic convents and monasteries “extreme.” Westerners seem always satisfied with institutionalized values. If is an idea with funding, with real estate, with a brochure, it’s okay–no matter how weird it actually is. But, the Orthodox Jews are to be written off as extreme, even by other Jews. Why? Probably because Orthodox Jews are not a marketable social institution, but a way of life. They’re much easier to attack and ostracize.
The Lord knows Jewish women have been the cutting edge of equality and women’s rights from day one. It seems as though they invented the issue.
But, this latest phrase, “exclusion of women.” What is that about?
“Beyond the bus,” as Lital Levin says?
Israel hasn’t seen a consensus like this on women’s rights in a long time. It’s only been a few weeks since the phrase “exclusion of women” became a staple of the news pages, and already it’s become a catchphrase that calls to mind associations like ultra-Orthodox extremism, religious coercion, the slogan “Iran is here,” oppression of women and fear of further escalation.
Exclusion from what? Being a man? This has always been the chronic flaw of most “rights” movements. It’s not about where they being, but where they end. So, what difference does it make if there are two lines to get on a bus, one for men, one for women, or even two different buses? What does that deny a woman? She can ride the bus, whenever she wants. Why is it to be considered denigrating to be identified as a woman? Or, to not be considered a man? What exactly is the objection?
Well, the story is a lot more complicated that ideology would have it, as Levin’s article clearly demonstrates.
Yet the demonstrations against the most visible forms of discrimination against women – like sex-segregated buses geared toward the ultra-Orthodox, the elimination of women from outdoor advertising campaigns in Jerusalem for fear of angering the ultra-Orthodox, and ultra-Orthodox attacks on the students and chaperones of a religious (but non-Haredi ) girls school in Beit Shemesh – pave the way for a struggle against the “true exclusion.”
“The struggle against the exclusion of women has gained public legitimacy,” said Hadar Shemesh, 31, from Tel Aviv, who organized rotations of women to ride in the front of sex-segregated buses. “Because it is against the ultra-Orthodox, it is very easy for everyone to say, ‘They’re the ones who are excluding women, not us.’”
And it is easier to protest such tangible exclusion, said Shemesh. “It is a physical struggle that can focus on direct action, whereas fighting against male domination in the theater and the press is much harder,” she said. Shemesh hopes that “if there is consistent collaboration among women over a long time, we’ll be able to take the struggle one step forward. We need to address ultra-Orthodox exclusion, but just as a basis for something much broader.”
Ah, yes. Now we’re back to the standard issues. Equality as expressed in numbers. If there are 50 jobs in town, 25 (or more) of them must be held by women. Or, clearly there are 150 women in town, and only 50 men. Therefore, three-quarters of all jobs rightfully belong to women.
This kind of ‘brilliant,’ abstract ideology of course neglects the balance of reality. It is an Amazon approach to life. It is reactionary. Many women want to be in control of men. Women have every right to pursue this course, certainly. They are free to campaign in every way possible to dominate men. (After all, that is the goal, at least of the cutting edge ideology.) And if women weren’t in a sufficiently militant mood before, the onslaught of Islam ought to put them all over the edge.
Of all the “rights” movements in the world, at this point, feminism is the biggest mess. It has become so ill-defined, so grossly contradictory, that, even with a media industry (entertainment and advertising) devoted to making men (particularly white men) seem helpless little boys before those mighty Amazon women–who all prefer large Negro males, feminism still has a fundamental flaw: a woman has to attract a man to mate. As long as that is a rudiment in the rounds, a touch of softness will always be required. Just a notion of weakness, dependency, or lovability. It doesn’t have to last, but, to be mated, in the traditional way, the woman has to play that role of being cherished by a male for just a little while. Of course, with the modern techniques of reproduction, even that may become a passing fancy. Women don’t really need a man for anything anymore–or so the ideology leads some to believe.
Now, who’s extreme?
Social agitation is considered healthy by many people. It keeps values fresh, real, and developing. Seems a painful, less than efficient way of profiteering, however. Leftists have always made careers off social agitation, racial, sexual, religious, etc. It is a kind of parasitic approach. Yet, no one should ever be mistreated. That’s always wrong, and counterproductive. I suppose the real issues is how to identify true mistreatment, how to know the standard of equity. Generally, it comes down to voting, and law, and all the corruption that comes with that system. Yet, that seems about the best we can do here and now.
34 responses so far ↓
1 David Yeagley // Dec 27, 2011 at 11:51 am
A Jewish friend of mine sent me these links. It’s all terribly interesting. Actually, the issues were all spelled out for me back at Yale, in the 70′s. I couldn’t figure it out then, and I don’t see that there has really been any progress since–not in terms of framing the ideology. Maybe not too much progress in terms of practical application, either.
Morality. Sexual morality–that’s what the Orthodox Jewish men are trying to address. In the larger social context, this gets completely lost.
But then, what exactly are the standards?
I’m taking sinus medication, and have a long trip ahead of me today. Hope the site is still here when I come back!
2 FolksJew // Dec 27, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Dr. Yeagley I applaud you for this article!
Now I know you are a serious guy and you mean the truth. May Hashem bless you with everything, and may you be esteemed as a righteous among the nations when messiah is gonna come!
This sheds a little light on whats going on in Israel:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/113015/Nationwide-Hate-Campaign-Against-Chareidim.html
3 zephyr // Dec 27, 2011 at 7:45 pm
While I agree that some liberal women and homosexual men seem bent on emasculating the rest of the male population, convents and monasteries really don’t compare with what the Orthodox Jews are trying to enforce here.
Convents and monasteries are voluntary. Laws that the orthodox are trying to pass for the entire nation are not.
The issue is a struggle for religious-political power, not so different from what the Pharisees and Sadduccees vied for in Christ’s day.
4 David Yeagley // Dec 27, 2011 at 8:36 pm
FolksJew, thanks for your support!
I obviously have no clear idea of what to say, plus, the sinus meds–which I’m off now!–made this day a rough one.
I know this is an important issue. The secular Jews of Israel want to make it a women’s rights issue. But, I think the Orthodox see it as a matter of modesty in sexual conduct.
The Yeshiva article was certainly helpful.
And people should remember, when women are segregated, the men are naturally segregated also. Self-segregated, but segregated. No one seems aware of this obvious fact, or its significance.
5 David Yeagley // Dec 27, 2011 at 8:56 pm
Zephyr, I don’t know the figures, but I’ve heard that 25% of the Jews in Israel are Orthodox, so there’s no threat of orthodoxy dominating the nation. Perhaps I’m reading the story wrong, but, I think we’re talking about Beit Shemesh. One community.
Furthermore, the sexual issue, in terms of the modesty or behavioral standards, the Orthodox way of life and the Catholic idea of institutional celibacy are perfectly comparable–by contrast. That’s why I mentioned it. You apparently took it literally, and on the cuff, and left it there.
I repeat, I’m talking about standards themselves, and not their social context. Social context is what makes one “extreme” and the other supposedly acceptable. But certainly, Levin’s article is precisely ambiguous and confused–as to who is represented whom. Again: people are wanting to condemn Jewish Orthodox sexual standards as extreme, but I don’t see those same people regarding Catholic celibacy as extreme. This is mockery, really, but typical of social thinking. Orthodox honor sex. The Catholic celibacy bit has obviously not. It has all been a giant fraud. A sexual fraud.
Are the Hardi women protesting their treatment? Or is it the secular Jewish women who are protesting it? This is another, critical issue. Of the Orthodox women are not complaining, no one has the right to complain for them-or to say that they are abused–if they don’t claim to be abused. That is pure politics, pure social agitation. Pure nonsense, really.
Gender is just behavior associated with sex–male or female. Gender roles change, or, can be adjusted. I don’t see how you can have “gender” discrimination.
Gender behavior, of course, is natural, and set, by the age of three, if not interfered with. Boys are boys, and girls are girls. Thank God.
6 Maharishi of Mayhem // Dec 27, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Simple and straightforward analysis from the Maharishi….
The Orthodox Yids are a drain on Israeli Society. They are as bad as Catholics in that they elevate rabbinic tradition over Scripture. They are all welfare bums and spend their time in “state-funded” Torah school all day long. They make babies like bunnies on steroids and allow the working Israelis and Americans who send money there to support them. They have an attitude of entitlement much like the lazy Blacks in American culture. They should cut the funds and make them all get jobs.
Now, there is so much that Bad Eagle has tempted us with here.
Here are my thoughts regarding feminism:
I will say that the Lesbian, Femi-Nazi mentality that dominates the American culture is sickening. This is especially sickening in the context of religion when domineering women who have a case of urinal-envy attempt to destroy churches and ministers with their pathological ideologies.
Women should stay home and raise their children instead of putting them in daycare or placing them in front of a television set.
Our country is in the sorry state that it is because the men have become fairies and have allowed the dykie women to take over everything.
7 David Yeagley // Dec 27, 2011 at 11:07 pm
The mayhem settles, and we are left with this consideration:
What is “raising” a child, and why is it so studiously AVOIDED???
Because the mother doesn’t get fame, fortune, and glory for it–until the child is grown. It takes a lot of patience to wait to see the results of your labor.
Raising a child means total sacrifice. Teaching, disciplining, caring. It is total commitment. Fathers have to be in on it, early, as well. But, the kid is naturally inclined toward the mother, for the longest time. It is naturally more used to her.
Children respond to a mother’s voice more readily as well. Even animals respond to a woman’s voice. Birds, dogs, horses, apes. This is a bit strange, but true.
8 Maharishi of Mayhem // Dec 28, 2011 at 8:13 am
Yes, isn’t it interesting that the male children of the domineering Lesbian Femi-nazi’s usually turn out to be fairies and the daughters turn out to be militant Mohels waiting to castrate any man that they can?
In the case of homosexuals, they should not be allowed to adopt or “children.” The Rosie O’donnel’s of this world and their fairy male counterparts should lose their right to be near children.
9 Maharishi of Mayhem // Dec 28, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Soon coming to America…thanks to our homosexual president.
Maybe this is why the Orthodox are so pissed…
http://www.lolgallery.com/the-israeli-army-has-new-uniform/ballerinas/
10 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 4:05 pm
What is happening in Israel among the Orthodox is a perfect example of religious legalism in action, or the attempt by men to keep a set of rules and regulations in order to be righteous before God. Some Orthodox rabbis actually believe their ‘religious authority’ usurps the authority of the Holy Scriptures! The spirit of the Pharisees is alive and well in the Holy Land. Very sad, indeed!
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord God, when I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but a famine for hearing the words of the Lord.” Amos 8:11
11 David Yeagley // Dec 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm
I don’t know about the rest of y’all, but I’m still not clear on the circumstances. Are the feminists of Israel (secular or otherwise) protesting the treatment of Orthodox women? If so, that is one issue. If the Orthodox women are protesting their own treatment–which I tend to doubt, then that is another issue.
If this is about the Orthodox trying to impose their traditions on the nation (which I don’t see happening at all, especially since they’re only 25% of the population), that’s one thing; if we’re just talking about an individual Orthodox community like Beit Shemesh, that’s another thing.
12 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Beit Shemesh Protest is Venue for Airing Hareidi, Secular Divide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h4O9Xhlm4VY
13 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Ultra orthodox jewish men clash with Israeli police in the city of Beit Shemesh, Dec 26, 2011. The protesters are demanding greater enforcement of segregation between men and women.
Again, the oppression of religious legalism rearing it’s ugly head!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFl4VWCxVso&feature=endscreen&NR=1
14 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 6:43 pm
According to a report in Arutz Sheva, one of the main sources of contention with this Orthodox group is the presence of a religious Zionists’ Girls School, Orot, “which, due to the burgeoning hareidi population in Beit Shemesh, now borders their neighborhood. They claim that the girls’ mode of dress, although set to a religious standard, is not modest enough to meet their particular standards”
Some of the members of this group have been harassing these girls, cursing and hurdling insults at them.
The volatile situation escalated last week when one of the extremist hareidi was caught by Israel’s Channel Two news cameras spitting on a seven year old student of the girls’ school.
Their outrageous behavior puts this group on the same level as Muslims who regularly attack women and young girls in their society whom they perceived have “stepped out of line” with their man made edicts.
15 David Yeagley // Dec 28, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Thanks, Pam. Thanks for the effort. (Man! I must be getting really think headed!)
Yes, I do remember reading something about that 7 year old…
Okay, then. What IS the right standard? WHO determines it? CAN it be determined?
What IS “modesty”? Does it come down to another one of those, “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it” deals? Like, the converse of the judge’s famous statement?
The “extremists” do seem to get radical when crossed…
Funny, how this issue didn’t seem to be part of what Jesus faced.
16 David Yeagley // Dec 28, 2011 at 7:50 pm
WRONG! He said whoever looks at a woman the wrong way has adultery in his heart…
Now, the way a woman dresses, or acts, DOES contribute–although, probably not necessarily completely controlling the man’s reaction…
So, is there NO standard? visually, outside, about dress itself?
17 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 8:17 pm
Jesus said, “You have heard it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who so much looks at a woman with an evil desire for her has already committed adultery in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
This does not mean admiring a physically beautiful woman in your mind. I believe what Jesus meant was someone who looks upon someone else with the desire to have sex with them and then, left unrepentant, puts that thought into action, commits adultery. In our sex-obsessed western culture today, I believe this is called “hooking up” with someone for a night or a weekend or whatever.
Proverbs 6:32 proclaims, “But whoever commits adultery with a woman (or a man) lacks heart and understanding moral principles and prudence; he who does it is destroying his own life.”
I think there have been more lives destroyed through indiscriminate sexual relations than any other sin, the one exception being the sin of pride, which usually runs concurrent with sexual immorality.
But I think this situation in Israel is far more about religious pride and legalism, as well as carnality, or
he flesh nature of man which is in constant opposition to God.
“For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the Holy Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are opposed to the flesh, godless human nature; for these are antagonistic to each other, continually withstanding and in conflict with each other, so that you are not free, but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.” Galatians 5:17
18 David Yeagley // Dec 28, 2011 at 8:42 pm
We live in an age, and in a country, where every inch of the woman’s body is marketed, and all body functions are marketed. Dozens of products regarding each and every aspect. Visible and invisible.
Now, to us, the Islamic hijob seems extreme. But, in Jesus day, most women were well covered with robe-like garments. Everyone was. I’m not even sure how they distinguished women’s clothing from men’s clothing, when it came to the Law against cross-dressing.
For me, I remain in uncertainty as to any exact, direct standard. I saw some hijobs in eastern Iran that were pretty slim-fitting, I’ll say that. Really thin material. Quite classy.
19 Pamela K. // Dec 28, 2011 at 9:19 pm
Personally I believe that the Islamic hijab, or head scarf worn by Muslim women is symbolic of their oppression under Islam. “Hijab” in Arabic means “curtain” or “covering”. Next to the Circassian women of the northern Caucus region, Persian women are some of the most beautiful women in the world. Why on earth should they be forced to cover themselves up? Iran was never historically a Muslim country. The people of Iran are being held hostage by Arab Muslim terrorists. I believe that Satan specifically targeted Iran for persecution, not only because of the unique biblical and spiritual ties between the Persian and the Jewish peoples, but because Iran was one of the two nations in the Middle East to recognize the modern state of Israel when she took her place among the nations in 1948. (Turkey was the other). In that time, both Iran and Turkey were considered moderate nations. Kemal Attaturk had liberated Turkish women from the Islamic veil in the early 1920′s. And under the Shah of Iran, the only women who wore the Islamic veil chose to do so on their own.
20 FolksJew // Dec 29, 2011 at 4:31 am
I apologize for my delayed response as I wasn’t near my computer for a while. And doctor you are most welcome.
Now first of all this whole racket is a Not a protest from the Orthodox women, this is clearly coming form leftist secular activists/government/media who are trying to impose their philosophy on the orthodox community (much like the Hellenization from the Chanukah times) Haredi women actually Want the “segregation”.
Now this is the story: based on Jewish modesty values, non-related man and women need to be separate (you can even see in the bible (kings 1 chapter 6) there was balconies in the holy temple made spacial for women to stay separate from men) and the same is with buses.
This is not like women are impure or anything, this is just to avoid adultery.
The ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel have been in a constant struggle with the government to keep their identity, for example the Israeli government does not letting them work for they haven’t served in the military, which the haredis don’t do because they don’t believe in the Zionist government, consequentially letting them stay on welfare or be completely dependent on the mercy of their brothers abroad.
The ultra orthodox Jews have tried in the past to have their own private segregated buses from one haredi neighborhood to the other, but the government didn’t want competition, so after much protesting they have agreed on creating a “mehadren” bus line which caters the haredi community from one haredi community to another.
So on that buses do the seculars want it not to be segregated. Now I wonder if they are now gonna let the orthodox Jews have their own buses.
21 Pamela K. // Dec 29, 2011 at 10:07 am
Labor Party Chairwoman MK Shelly Yechimovich criticizes the media over its ongoing incitement against hareidi-religious Jews.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151194#replies
22 ELIAKIM // Dec 29, 2011 at 11:36 am
Time for the Haredi to understand the Zechariah prophecies for this timeline that state the ‘worthless shepherds’ are being cut off. They do not have the favor or the union with the LORD.
Time for them understand that the LORD is not up for their vanity anymore.
There was also fights between the Armenian and Copts in Church, they were violent and hitting each with brooms. Reminded me of witches as they prance around in their black dresses.
As the Lute of Lovingkindness told the Jewish priests 2,000 years ago, to trample their garments of religious pride under their feet.
The Harp of Faithfulness is here now and they the Haredi must be informed that Joseph is here. The LORD did plant HER exactly as prophet Hosea predicted the LORD would. He planted her in Jezreel in May 2006.
The LORD promised his people that he would betroth them to him in faithfulness and righteousness.
Prophet Malachi also told that when the Messenger of the Covenant came the calves would leave their stalls of division and separation.
It is over for the Haredi that teach children the world is only 6,000 years old.
They have to catch up and come into the 21st century.
Elohiym are here and the prophecies state that only the tribes of Joseph will be saved.
Matthew 24 also tells the Christians that there is only one that is saved and that person must give their testimony to the nations. Then the end will come.
23 ELIAKIM // Dec 29, 2011 at 11:46 am
“Haredi women actually Want the “segregation”.
Time for the Haredi to heal their ‘wants’ which is the lowest form of consciousness and move their energy into their hearts of essentials.
Time for the Haredi to do the will of the LORD as delivered by the Messenger of the Covenant.
Otherwise you can all leave the planet for good.
24 zephyr // Dec 29, 2011 at 6:48 pm
It’s all about power and control.
Historically speaking, it only takes 10-20% of the population to control the other 80-90%.
Most states in the U.S. have 1-2% Muslim population (some have less). And look how much power we allow them to wield.
If the U.S. Muslim population is ever permitted to reach 25%, we will be a Muslim country. So yes, 25% can make things unbearable for the remaining 75%.
25 David Yeagley // Dec 29, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Orthodox Israeli charged with insulting woman soldier
Dec 29 02:34 PM US/Eastern
An orthodox Jew was charged with sexual harassment on Thursday after a young Israeli woman soldier was verbally abused for refusing to sit at the back of a bus, a judicial source said.
Shlomo Fuchs, a 44-year-old father, was charged for allegedly insulting the soldier several times, including calling her a “whore,” for refusing demands to sit on the rear benches of the vehicle.
“The increasing phenomenon of discrimination against women endangers democratic society,” a police court hearing at which the suspect was charged was told.
The accused was granted bail of 20,000 shekels (4,000 euros) until his case is heard, but he was unable to pay and was remanded in custody.
26 Maharishi of Mayhem // Dec 29, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Interesting…somehow I think that these Orthodox Yids would be screaming for help from female Israeli soldiers if there was a Hamas terrorist in the neighborhood. An M4 Carbine is much better than a rock against a terrorist.
I flew to Israel on a 747 full of these stinking Yids. They are worthless. Add nothing to Israeli society….religious or otherwise.
27 Sioux // Dec 29, 2011 at 8:21 pm
May I suggest that the ultra-orthodox Jews do what the Amish do – get your own buggies and quit trying to impose your values on others. We can see what Jesus was up against back in the day – legalists devoted to their own brand of dogma so entrenched they missed the Son of Man. Nothing much has changed in the human heart over the millennia.
28 Pamela K. // Dec 29, 2011 at 9:08 pm
” We can see what Jesus was up against back in the day – legalists devoted to their own brand of dogma so entrenched they missed the Son of Man.”- Sioux
This is the truth. Religious legalism is the spirit of the Pharisees in action. Remember when the Lord healed on the Sabbath? A miracle of healing performed right before the very eyes of the Pharisees and yet, all they were concerned about was whether or not Jesus was breaking their laws by healing on the Sabbath. To which the Lord responded, “Is it lawful and right on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to take it?” Mark 3:4
The Pharisees, in their obvious frustration and self-righteous indignation, could not answer Him. They just went to conspire with the Herodians as to how they might devise some means to put Him to death.
Paul railed against the practice of religious legalism among his fellow Jews when he wrote, “I bear them witness that they have a certain zeal and enthusiasm for God, but it is not enlightened and according to correct and vital knowledge. For being ignorant of the righteousness that God ascribes, which makes one acceptable to Him in word, thought, and deed, and seeking to establish a righteousness or a means of salvation of their own, they did not obey or submit themselves to God’s righteousness.” Romans 10:2-3.
29 Sioux // Dec 29, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Pam- I appreciate your knowledge so much. What a blessing that we can all meet here and get riled by Dr. Y’s awesome insights and carry it to so many places.
30 David Yeagley // Dec 29, 2011 at 11:00 pm
Hey, now! The Orthodox Jews are the “constitutionalists” of the Jewish nation, much like our “conservatives” of America. (I mean, that’s how they see themselves.)
The Orthodox are like the traditionalists among the American Indian tribal community. Without someone keeping the fire, it goes out. The Orthodox Jews are for the Jewish religion, not for everyone else.
I’ve heard American rabbis say that many Jewish people actually believe that the Orthodox keep the religion alive and keep the people united in the religion. Someone has to do it.
Every people has its flame keepers. (And throwers.)
I’ve told the traditionalist (ghost dancer) Indians, however, that if it weren’t for America, today, who would protect them, who would allow Indians to keep the deep traditions? Someone fights for that freedom. Someone pays a price.
The modern fighters, however, should not attempt to destroy or alter the traditions. Just protect them.
31 Pamela K. // Dec 30, 2011 at 8:31 am
These people are considered the “constitutionalists” and “conservatives” of the nation of Israel? Well, I guess that makes sense when your realize that the Taliban consider themselves both the “constitutionalists and conservatives in Afghanistan. I must admit, however, these radical Haredim have not yet taken it upon themselves to behead the women who allegedly offend them. They just spit on little girls and call their older sisters shameless whores.
You would think that after so many Orthodox men, women, and children were murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust, these people would honor their memory by allowing others different from themselves to live and let live. After all, Israel must be inclusive to Jews coming there from all over the world, with many bringing with them customs from their former homelands. But that said, tiny Israel could teach our nation a thing or two about the assimilation of new immigrants. Unlike America, where asking someone to learn to speak English is deemed racist, Israel requires all her new citizens to learn the Hebrew language.
And speaking of America, when did the Government of the United States ever really protect the American Indians? When they threw my Cherokee ancestors off their land because they felt all the Indians would be better off lumped together out in Indian Territory?
The Indians were not hurting anyone, not at first. It was after they kept being forced off their land and further West that they began to retaliate against the white Americans.
The American government could not even leave the Ghost Dancers alone. They had all but defeated the Plains Indian tribes yet they feared that this religious movement was somehow defiant to their rule so they outlawed it. The end result of this interference on the part of the US Government was the despicable 1890 massacre at Wounded Knee and the death of many Indians, including the great Sioux Chief Sitting Bull.
Why couldn’t the government just leave these people alone?
32 Sioux // Dec 30, 2011 at 9:24 am
Freedom meets Orthodox Jew – penalty for exercising your individual freedom historically was ostracizing and shunning. This kept most people in the fold under fear of losing the family/kin forever. The Amish let their children go experience the worldly world before they commit to the Amish way of life. My son is in love with an Orthodox Jew whose family want him to upgrade to their kosher way of life (my son is a half-breed, and the Jewish daddy doesn’t count). So, more dilution of the old ways if my son and his girlfriend marry. Bad thing? Well, I wish they were both Christian, so what can I say?
33 ELIAKIM // Dec 30, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Good on the Amish, Sioux.
“The Orthodox are like the traditionalists among the American Indian tribal community. Without someone keeping the fire, it goes out. The Orthodox Jews are for the Jewish religion, not for everyone else.”
David, the fact is that the word ‘religion’ does not exist in biblical Hebrew and there comes a time when people have to understand that teaching children that the world is 6,000 years old is not healthy for them. Its time for the children of the world to catch up with cutting edge science.
This it the 21st century and modern Israel and modern Israeli’s are not up for being dictated to by the haredi.
Orthodoxy is called carnal in the bible because it co-creates fixed minds and stubborn hearts. Hence why the Jewish prophets always told the Jewish people that they were stubborn hearted.
The bible also spoke about the traditions of men.
“See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.”
In terms of the Indians one could speak in terms of Great Spirit. How can Great Spirit of the Native Indians help them if they are fixed in their views?
There is a great opportunity for the Native Indians if they come to understand the cutting edge science and how it aligns with their spirituality.
This is also a time for the healing of the nations as such the Indians should bring forth the shamanic healing aspects of their spirituality and humanity and relate it to the science.
Ancient spirituality and wisdom can be refreshed and enlightened by the science.
However, while Indians think they have the whole truth and nothing but the truth, they’re missing out.
Th Creator purposefully did not give the whole truth to one nation or culture because the Creator knows the weakness of men.
Hence why Christ said there are many rooms in my Father’s mansion. Each room holds spiritual aspects that can complement the others when people are open to it. Then people have universal truth.
I just an old Red Crow video where he was entertaining the IRA. It states in the video that the Irish murdered more Indians than anyone else and he blamed the army. He completely left out the fact that he was in cahoots with the Catholics that were owned by the Vatican.
Could Red Crow be so easily manipulated and flattered by those that were terrorists in the UK to actually engage with them? Well he did.
The same has happened with the Lakotakh that were flattered by the PLO paying them a visit.
It is no coincidence that all of the Latin American leaders that formed an alliance with the Arabs/Islam have all got cancer. Arab leaders do as well.
The LORD will not allow Islam to take the children in the West out his hand.
34 sjk // Jan 5, 2012 at 7:42 pm
‘Orthodox honor sex. The Catholic celibacy bit has obviously not. It has all been a giant fraud. A sexual fraud.’ Mr. Yeagley, this is no more a fair statement than to say that because Christians sin, because we all (however infrequently) fail and have to turn back to God and ask for forgiveness and renew our efforts to be Godly people, therefore Christianity is all a giant fraud.
You have much to say that is interesting, thoughtful and thought-provoking, and you are very articulate. I enjoy your writing and your perspective on things, but statements such as the one I quote above are unworthy of you.
When I was a child we had family friends who were of the Seventh Day Adventist persuasion. I said to my mother, “They are good, Christian people aren’t they?” with which she emphatically agreed. Imagine my surprise and hurt when one day one of this family informed me that “The Catholic religion is the worst one of all.” I think that it’s terribly sad that we should let these divisions between denominations be strengthened with statements such as these.
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